In my discussions of the various player classes I have frequently brought up the differences between the old 3.5 edition and the new 4.0 edition. I know this debate has pretty much sunk to to "squabbling unbernerd" level, but I wanted to share my opinions on the matter. The short answer:
"3.5 has much more space for creativity; the sheer number of options available to players and DMs alike ensure that whatever you want to do is possible. 4.0, on the other hand, is actually playable for anyone who hasn't memorized the Player's Handbook and the Dungeon Master's Guide."
The long answer:
Alright, I have a simple analogy to demonstrate the two editions: 3.5 is a PC and 4.0 is a Mac. Like a PC, 3.5 edition operated with most of its code laid bare. It had numerous supplements, all of which were easily compatible with the main system and allowed users an awe-inspiring level of customization. However, if you were not someone who understood the workings of the system, it was just lines and lines of text with no real meaning. Like a Mac, 4.0 is centered around user-friendliness. Instead of chunks of text, you have these app-like blocks for powers and monster stats. Although you are given a wide variety of tools to tweak your game, creating elements from scratch is all but impossible. To further illustrate my point, here are four examples of how these two systems differ:
Example One: Character Creation
3.5: Building a character in 3.5 edition was a very involved process. Picking skills alone could take upwards of fifteen minutes (more on that later). The standard method of determining you statistics was to roll four d6s and pull out the lowest die. This, of course, meant that some characters could be absolute monsters while others struggled to do much of anything. This system obviously had the potential to be rather unfair but you missed that somehow when your fighter was sitting on two eighteens, a seventeen, and three fifteens. Picking your class was relatively easy, though. As long as your party had a Wizard and someone with access to healing, you were all set.
4.0: Building a character in 4.0 edition is a little like playing with Legos. Skills are an afterthought at best (again, later). The standard method of stat creation is a point buy, but the handbook provides you with every possible spread. Picking your stats is just a matter of selection the scores you want and plugging them into place. Every character is determined by this system and so every character has an equal level of power (at least, in their scores). Party building is more of chore now, however. Now its not just healing and game-breaking you have to worry about; there are four roles that should be filled. No matter how awesome you character is, you may have to scrap it to make sure someone's actually healing in your party.
Example Two: Skills
3.5: By my count, there are forty seven unique skills in the Player's Handbook for 3.5 edition and I know that there were a few books that added even more. The skills were really a separate system from your weapons and spells. Sure, they all used the same basic rolls, but there was something very different about missing with a sword vs not seeing the key on the far wall.
The skill selection was vast and varied and included the classic "find loot set:" Spot, Listen, and Search, as well as the endless train of Knowledge skills, and the oddballs like Use Rope. Anything your character wanted to do could be linked to a skill, making success or failure an essential part of 3.5 adventuring.
4.0: There are only seventeen skills in the Player's Handbook and none of the books in this edition add any more. This stunned collection hinders skill checks from being any more involved than an occasional lackluster roll. It still feels different to be rolling your attacks vs rolling your skill check; the attacks feel like they actually matter whereas the skill are more something fun, but largely inconsequential. Your pallet of skill options has been boiled down to its absolute minimum. "Perception" has replaced "spot," "search," and "listen." "Thievery" has not only replaced "steal" but also "open lock." "Use rope" has been left completely in the cold along with "craft" and "preform." In fact, it seems like every skill that could not be directly used in combat was erased.
Example Three: Combat
3.5: Combat was a true struggle for survival in 3.5 edition. Your health was low and your enemies' damage output was high. Monsters could stun lock you round after round or hand you one of the infamous "save or die" effects. Doing epic things was possible, but you would pay if it failed. In 3.5 edition, the deck was stacked against players in combat. The hardest part about being a DM was a mix of keeping track of all the monsters' abilities, keeping the encounter a fun challenge, and not killing your party.
4.0: Combat is a whole lot of showing off in 4.0. Don't get me wrong, a skilled DM can still challenge a party, its just that the whole system is centered around pulling ridiculous and improbable stunts. Just take a look at some of the power names I pulled out in my awesome classes posts and imagine what using them must look like. Furthermore, the monsters have all been tamed quite a bit. There are now much stricter guidelines for assembling balanced encounters and any party with a decent idea of what they are doing (or even one or two members that do) can coast through these encounters. Also, there are no more "save or die" effects."
Example Four: Noncombat
3.5: Thanks to the complex skill system mentioned earlier, 3.5 edition remains fun and engaging even when there's nothing to stab. Chatting to a shifty character is a roll vs roll smack down as your Insight checks go up against their Bluff. Or maybe its the other way around; maybe you're trying to convince the town guard that your are not, in fact, the travelers they are looking for. Either way, you can never be sure how the dice will turn. On the more dangerous side of noncombat, the Rogue was one of the only classes to even have the option to disable a trap. If your party was missing the essential stabby element, good luck.
4.0: N/A
Alright, that's an exaggeration. A small exaggeration, but an exaggeration nonetheless. 4.0 does have a noncombat element to it, it just looks exactly like combat. When attempting to bluff or avoid being bluffed, the receiving party is more than likely using their passive insight. The passive score is more like a glorified second will defense than anything else, making a bluff check more like a bluff attack vs insight. You can still disable traps and participate in the king's war council; now those event are handled in a "skill challenge." A skill challenge is set up exactly like combat, with play proceeding in rounds and each player choose one skill attack on their turn. This isn't to say that its a bad system, only that it can be very unsatisfying for anyone who isn't a hack-and-slasher.
Dude, the lack of skill/non-combat elements is what really irks me about 4.0. I can appreciate that the game play is simpler, but I am just NOT a hack and slash player. I much preferred the open-ended approach of 3.5 that allowed much more opportunity for character development and story telling. The shift to 4.0 basically killed my love of DnD because now all players care about is killing baddies. How am I supposed to develop a character if all I can do is stab things?
ReplyDeletePORAG LIKE 4.0!
ReplyDeleteInteresting... I do have one thing to edit... in 4.0 Chaos Phage is a Save or die effect... Well, save 3 times or die. Otherwise a slaad bursts forth from your dead body...
ReplyDeleteSo is the Beholder death ray that took our beloved Puck Quickblade from us. But those aren't "Save or Die." Those are "Save or Save or Save or Die." The likelihood of you actually dying to such an effect is extremely low.
ReplyDeleteAnother thing about 3.5 that's different is that in 3.5 you have only another 10 hitpoints and then you DIE. In 4.0 it's a lot harder to die from a loss of hitpoints
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